P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Sometimes I read your posts and think "Dave has definitely been through the ringer."

 

I've been looking at this thread from time to time and keep wondering, how does anyone of you manage to continue after several months to years suffering from PAWS?
The reason I'm asking is, because I think today I hit rock bottom and my will to continue after I relapsed several times and destroyed the entire progress I made last 30 days.

I have been trying for over 3 years now, knowing that my destroyed reward system keeps holding my in this visicle cicle of isolation.
I'm aware in oder to be able to get my Life together, as in being able to take the necessary steps, I need to get over the PMO addction and allow my brain to heal, but at the same time my Life situation and psychological issues that come with it, sometimes overwrite the rationalization and lead to a relapse...

This year it had less to do with urges I believe, but negative emotions, feelings of shame and loneliness, like I feel like I still go back to it no matter how great the streak has been and how unbearable the journey was, especially the first few weeks, because after a while I can't deal with these emotions and just want to have a break, therefore leading to a relapse...

Any idea what to do?

 

Relapsing regularly does not necessarily mean that you have failed, or that you have lost all progress. It can simply be an indicator that your method of recovery needs to change slightly. Also, there is nothing irregular about relapsing multiple times and feeling as though you have hit rock bottom.

Some people going through PAWS will experience negative emotions that are so strong, that it will have an impact on their ability to abstain. Negative emotions that have not been resolved have a negative effect on the nervous system. With shame being the densest off all emotions, if left unattended it will fester and cause the body to release stress hormones cortisol and adrenaline.

The bodies reaction to chronic shame is to seek out coping mechanisms like PMO, social media, or other self-numbing activities. It is a means of survival made by the body.

By dealing with the shame and other emotions your PMO addiction will gradually begin to disappear. If not, the negative emotions will continue to pull you back towards PMO and other habits. This is why recovery will take so long for some people.

 

Just keep trying, my friend. It took me 16 years to get my 238 days of no PMO. I first attended a 12-step meeting for sex addicts in 2008 at the age of 24. I am 40 years old now. Unfortunately many times I gave up the fight and surrendered to my addiction. The only sure way to lose is through giving up.

I believe that a person needs very good boundaries around the internet use (no social media and no p-subs). I would also recommended staying off of YouTube if you can.

I believe that there has to be a systematic approach to recovery (whatever works for you: psychotherapy, spirituality, physical exercise, church, 12 steps, hypnosis, plant medicine/ hallucinogens, etc.)

It took me approximately five months of continuous abstinence to get through the first part of the flatline. I am not the guy to sit around, do nothing and wait for "time and abstinence" to fix me. I believe that the PAWS symptoms can be relieved through cold showers, meditation, yoga, long walks, jogging, acupuncture, massage, hot baths, sauna, and many other techniques.

I am a big believer in IFS (internal family systems therapy) and EMDR.

Yes, this process will take time. If you are still acting out periodically that has to stop. There is no way to get through the flatline if I am still acting out.

PMO addiction is a very serious problem. I would even say that it is deadly serious. But there is a way out. We are all in this together. And we have examples of people that have overcome this addiction.

 

I binged and the indicators are there for me to believe I'm back to zero, I mean maybe not compared to when i discorvered my addiction in 2020, But I know when I get back to my routine and stop indulging in short- term gratification, a few days from now, withdrawals from hell going to return.

How to deal with shame? I tried to rationalize it, but it didn't work, although to be fair, it's not only shame, but isolation and also lack of purpose etc...

 

I recently binged. I feel horrible. It's a very shitty feeling; you just gotta fight through. The next few days will be intense guilt and pain; the days afterwards will be lesser pain and more healing and the cycle will resume...

You just gotta build back the momentum and look at the shallow positives. "Atleast I didn't binge that much. Atleast I still ate healthy."

It's the best you could do. In the following days make sure you do your best to live healthy and avoid all chaser effects, triggers, and any vices of all sorts. You gotta completely abstain. Give your brain a good platform to heal.

Good luck!

 

I find it much easier to not feel the shame when I am not engaging in things to be ashamed of, i.e. binging on PMO.

When I look at P, it is impossible to reconcile who I think of myself as a person and the kinds of crap that I look up online. This creates internal turmoil, disgust, depression, revulsion, i.e. shame.

 

sorry to hear that. Sometimes it can feel like recovery is never achievable, hang in there.

I will note that in my own personal case that i never started making progress on my streaks until i deleted social (most importantly Instagram) from my devices. All it really does is trigger you unnecessarily. I also took the time one day to make sure my youtube feed was trigger free and hiding all of facebooks stories on messenger, since i still need the messenger.

 

Shame is an emotion so you cannot rationalise it with your mind, you have to feel it. Feelings like isolation and lack of purpose all come from shame. Some people are ashamed of who they and so isolate themselves from the world as a means of safety. For others shame prevents them from realising who they are and so they cannot find purpose, and so if shame is left unattended for too long it evolves into toxic shame. Shame is being ashamed about something you did, toxic shame is being ashamed of who you are.

It helps to understand where the shame actually comes from. In my case I was raised in a very strict household, with family members that often shamed me for not being perfect. PMO and non-stop video games was my method of dealing with that shame. The problem is when you are shamed for so long, you start to believe it, and so I would go out to parties, get drunk, and feel ashamed of what my family and friends would think about me. Fast forward a few years and I was too ashamed to talk or interact with anyone, I would just stay indoors 24/7 PMO'ing and gaming. Doctors advised it was social anxiety when in fact it was toxic shame.

While the withdrawals are never pleasant, it is a good opportunity to start getting rid of the shame. The feeling of shame should be engrained somewhere with all of the other nasty symptoms that come up with withdrawal. When the withdrawals hit, do everything you can not to distract yourself from the feelings. That is it. Ignoring the negative emotions allows them to remain and grow. When you accept it and continue your day, it will start to disappear and relieve your overall PAWS symptoms. This is what some people here are now referring to as a "PAWS reduction".

Final point, if you look at this chart, you can see the word shame in the red section. Look to the far right and you will see that shame actually decreases sexual responses in the body. In short, shame keeps the nervous system locked in a state of hypoarousal, preventing your libido from being available. To take it one step further, shame (if strong enough) can keep the body stuck in a flatline state.

My case might be extreme but simply outlining in hope it helps somehow.

 

Day 86 and once again my symptoms are floating away. I want to be excited but the fear of them coming back is lurking. My libido is not great but my depression and anxiety have lifted. Had a very rough day yesterday. Very rough. I ended up sleeping decent last night but not great. I’m sure that helped. The last few nights were insomnia ridden. Can I hold out hope that these are standard flatline fluctuations and I may not be dealing with long term PAWS as @mentorr original proposed?

 

I think if you are still flatlining after 8 months and are not cured, then there is potential for PAWS. But I would not focus on PAWS, I would just focus on a clean and heathy recovery process, avoiding stimulation as much as possible.

Even if you do enter PAWS (which hopefully you do not), you can still recover. PAWS is not a death sentence if you take the necessary steps to recover.

 

Hey Tony,

Even after all these years of recovering brainfog is still there for me. I think it is just something that very gradually improves. As for libido - I think it also one of the last things to return.

How long have you been recovering for now?

 

Has your libido come back at all in this time?

 

I am on day 239 of NoFap and just had a massive PAWS reduction. I have been Brain fog free for the past two weeks. I am holding my breath.

I used two techniques that are supposed to help with 1) brain plasticity and 2) dealing with past trauma. I don't know which of them worked or whether it was just time an abstinence.

i am feeling like a new man these past two weeks. the PAWS was awful. I have a feeling that it may come back. I am never again touching the PMO. Recovery from the PMO can be just awful.

 

After 17 months of recovery with no relapses, and feeling emotionally calm (aka no anger, depression or anxiety) I would expect to be healed. If there have been no PMO relapses, and you are not experiencing any negative emotions, I would start to question what is keeping your nervous system in such a state with brainfog, poor cognitive functions and no libido.

I could be wrong or missing key details, but I am going on what I have experienced and read.