Great video about masculinity, dating advice, and the virtue of kindness

I think it's worth saying that many men still unfortunately believe that enacting toxic masculinity is the way to go. Many platforms centered around misogyny sell the idea that women are objects to be conquered, amongst them the red pill site, the incel forum, and many others.

These movements want to reinforce the idea that men dominating women, is justified and that men are inherently more competent in any influential domain. In other words, the only fitting role a woman can have is the role of a subservient wife and mother, since she wouldn't have the necessary biological 'predisposition' to compete and assert herself in society, at least according to their common belief.

But the problem here isn't only those male masses who support misogyny and male supremacism, it's the mainstream public personalities who give them the academic cover they need to gain legitimacy. I am sure you are able to think of some names too.

I can understand you very well for thinking that many young men need to ditch those messages surrounding male domination as the only measure of their worth, however, if only it was that simple.

These beliefs are the reminiscence of male supremacist heritages, where women were excluded from all central domains under various excuses and were confined to the role of ensuring a comfortable life for men, while the latter wielded political, academic, and economical power.

The anger these young men feel stems from privilege loss, at least when they compare themselves to their forefathers. So the need to regain their 'lost masculinity' resulted in them founding a cult where they claim they are oppressed by the simple fact that women gained rights men always had access to, and even blame women for the imminent 'collapse' of civilization.

This is why the concept of healthy connection is absent in the heterosexual relationship dynamics promoted by these ideologies as ideal for men. Simply put; a supremacist ideology doesn't need to consider the target of its intended persecution as worthy of anything else than degradation and repression.

 

I don't think it is. I think the anger men feel is justified to a certain extent.

In her song Boys Don't Cry Camila Cabello sings the words:

'It's not stupid, It's not drama
It's just trauma turned to armor'

The thing is most women think men's trauma is stupid. It's understandable that some men turn to anger and/or violence. Women tend to blame men for toxic masculinity and never want to look at how women are playing their part in furthering it. Seems to me many women want to have their cake and eat it.

 

First where toxic masculinity comes from?

Toxic masculinity in general relies on measuring a man's worth based on dominance, violence, and control. This constraint that prevents men from openly being emotional and accepting vulnerabilities is none other than the byproduct of machistic ideals, where emotionality=feminity=weakness. Because it was mostly men who had access to leadership and wielded power, and since power and leadership always require dealing with adversity and challenges, which also require cold-headedness and stoicism, the standard that men should never be emotional emerges.

These ideals have been created and sustained as a requirement for proper manhood by men themselves, within all patriarchal societies. What I fail to understand is why so many men complain about society not accepting emotional displays from men, and still idealize the same machistic traits that denigrate male emotionality ? Of course, I am specifically referring to alpha/beta/sigma guys who believe toxic masculinity to be elevating, and later complain about how men being emotional is considered taboo. What is furthermore inconsistent, is to claim women as the culprits while you are fueling your own suffering trying to reach the unattainable standards of toxic masculinity.

 

it's mostly men who think this way about each others' trauma: don't be such a p*ssy is said by men to other men.

 

Toxic masculinity is nothing more than a gauge patriarchal men created to measure each others' worth. Even the ones who complain about society not accepting male emotionality still support ideologies that look at male emotionality with the utmost contempt.

 

And on top of that, these are the same men who will complain about male assault not being taken seriously and blame women/feminists for it.

Yes, I have been there too. Even when the male victim had been as young as eight years old, a child who would rather play with lego and draw cartoon characters than face an aspect of life he has no concept of. But the majority of male comments purposefully overlook this fact, and prefer downplaying the victim's assault.

But if we look deeper into this, we might grasp the motivations behind such comments, these men know quite well how traumatic it feels for a child to have an adult use their body, but the idea that men (even young boys) are vulnerable to this sort of victimization by the opposite sex is outright rejected because it contradicts the idea of men being advantageous by default in every heterosexual encounter, and that a real man can never be anything else but in power and in control.

If we acknowledge this idea as the drive of their reasoning, we'll understand that validating the male victim as such, means for them to accept that control in heterosexual dynamics wouldn't be always granted. So they would rather toss a fellow man under the bus, than cement the idea that men can be sexually vulnerable in relation to a woman. They sure know how well they'll benefit from being seen as unattainable and always in control.

 

The 'nice guys' aren't even nice to begin with, their ulterior motives always come to the surface from time to time, and they even get creepy in case you reject them.

 

Hatred stirs up conflict, but love covers over all wrongs. Proverbs 10:12
For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more. 8:12

Why so much frustration and concealed hate talking about something you two are, by the looks of it, completely clueless about?

 

From my understanding, toxic masculinity comes from patriarchy. Patriarchy was necessary for humans to survive in a hunter-gatherer society. Since evolving from such societies patriarchy has become less and less necessary for human survival and now it's probably unnecessary. The trouble is people find it hard to change since the human brain has been wired in such a way that we unconsciously think patriarchy is necessary for survival. I think that is why you have women who call themself feminists still encouraging toxic masculinity. It takes a lot of work to rewire the brain.

In her TED Talk, Brené Brown talks about how women can't stand a man who is vulnerable and in order for a woman or man a sit with someone in a vulnerable moment requires someone who has done a lot of work on themselves. And yes men do this to other men too. If you show any vulnerability to other men they will think of you being weak. If show you care another man other men will think you're gay...

Emotions tend to make people uncomfortable. You see it with the way parents interact with their children - they do whatever they can to shut the child up whenever a child happens to cry. That sends the message to the child that expressing emotions is bad and should be avoided in any situation. The child brings that idea into adulthood. So maybe it is less of a male or female probable but more of a people problem. Having said that men are more likely to turn to violence or anger. On the flip side, men are far more likely to kill themself than women.

It seems to me men have four choices:

1. Turn to anger or violence.
2. Kill themself.
3. Bury their trauma and take it to the grave with them.
4. Talk to someone about their trauma.

Who's to say which option is the most popular? I guess it depends on someone's upbringing, life experiences, and culture. Most men I know tend to go for option 3 and I expect option 4 is the least popular. Women seem to have a better way of processing pain and tend to feel freer in expressing themselves in a healthier way. It seems to me something happens to men between childhood and adulthood that is different to women that causes such behaviours.

From my experience most women do. The women I know tend to think men are supposed to be strong and not show any weakness. They think men are supposed to succeed and any man who isn't successful is a failure. I think it's possible that some women don't think that but I've yet to meet any who don't. I also see it in the media and entertainment. Most songs women sing about men have them belittling men for not being strong. The only exception I can think of is Camila Cabello.

The trouble is the video is way too long. I only watched the intro and the last few minutes. I'm not going to watch someone talk for 3 hours+ no matter who they are or what they're saying. The most I would watch a talking video is for 30 minutes. I don't know why people think it's a good idea to make such longform videos or podcasts. In her intro, she said she was going to release each section individually and it might have been better to share those videos instead.

 

No, the patriarchy doesn't date back to hunter-gatherer societies. Back then there was no need for strict gender roles allowing men more freedom and Influence. Because what was truly valuable in those times was how much any individual can contribute to the survival of humanity, both sexes contributed to hunting and gathering. And women, just like men, were subjected to extreme forms of physical activities because it was necessary for survival.

The patriarchal structure only emerged as humans became sedentarized and began to further organize their communities. In order to do so, they needed to effectively avoid incest by knowing paternal lineage, and based on this they regulated the ownership of property and power.

And so those systems encouraged female subservience as a mean to ensure wouldn't have enough options outside of what their men allow, and thus the chances of disputed paternity are at the lowest, and with it any possibility for accidental incest. Because humans probably noticed that incest correlates with high child mortality.

Enough for context, that is to say that the patriarchy didn't come from humans having their brains 'wired' to pursue it, it was a system initially made to organise human society and relations based upon the strict knowledge of people's lineage, with the core objective of avoiding incest and its health problems.

With this we can also conclude the same for toxic masculinity, since it's a byproduct of the patriarchy.

 

The problems is that most men aren't interested in hearing a woman's opinion about how the concept manhood can be Improved in a way that benefits both sexes in modern society. They seem to admire the 'competence' of 'traditional men'.

Many here seem to blindly believe unfounded theories categorising men's worth based on traits related to toxic masculinity. The concept of self affirmation through misogyny and male domination is what sells best in here.

What they really want is to have a recepe book showing them how to be an 'alpha' man. In other words, how to internalise machismo and use its 'power' to do everything you want.

I too tried to bring those issues when I first joined the forum, but all I have got is a few members whom my message has resonated with, the rest were just angry guys accusing me of being a misandrist because I dared to criticize the negative aspects of 'traditional masculine values' they loved so much. Of course the same guys can't afford dealing with emotional issues plaguing them and end up suffering from the standards they set for themselves.

 

Except the kind of encouragement most are interested in must include elements related to toxic masculinity, otherwise your encouragement will just be seen as completely emasculating.