P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

lol

 

Hey guys,

I am currently in recovery from years of PMO abuse and been in this PAWS state for years now. My mental health is strong, never turned depressed, anxious or negative and been clear minded throughout the entire journey (Human cockroach lolz).
Pyshical checks done, bloodtest done: Healthy.

Current remaining symptoms (had a heck lot more and way more extreme):

1. Extreme fatigue to the point that I literally can't get a job (I look very tired and bored).
2. Insomnia which is slowly fading away, but I still have days that I can't sleep for 48H (eyes not getting tired, prob not enough melatonine production or whatever those days) , I sleep longer hours now, at first I woke up after 5H of sleep, now my sleep is getting longer towards seven hours.
3. Heart rate still elevated, especially after standing up, walking stairs or more intens daily activity.
4. Weak nervous system. eating the wrong foods: MacDonalds, redbull, coffee, too much sugar all attack my nervous system, although it has become way less than before. At first I was in 2H stress attacks because of this. And NO, these werent panic attacks, there is a big difference, my mind is very steady and clear. Certain foods and certain activity attacks my nervous system and it needs to recover for a while. Also I will get these stress attacks when I push myself too hard mentally and force myself to hard with for example studying, but my body got def better at handling stress over time.

5. SLOW HEALING:

A) If I cut a tiny piece of facial skin open due to shaving, the wound will get turned into a red crust rather fast, but my body will not speed up the rest of the recovery. Facial hair growth very very slow!? Every few months it will get a tiny boost and suddenly the hairs will be longer in a matter of a nightsleep, but only certain parts first before moving to other areas, seems like the body/brain mapped which area to grow first before moving to the others wtf.
B) Deep eye bags that slowly fade away overtime, every 3 months same boost as mentioned, eyebags get less deep and the skin around my eyes is becoming tighter overtime.

6: Dry skin, White floks in beard, hair. For years now, lately it has been way less I feel like, but also very slow progress overtime. I drink alot of water, I eat CLEAN, like Paleo clean, tried alot of diets including vegan diet and carnivore diet and no difference.

7: No libido and therefore ED. Mostly no morning wood, gets lately a bit harder though. But the morning wood will be sometimes there for 5 days concurrently and then months of complete abstenance. I feel like it wont come back in full force until my Heart has re-balanced and my heartrate acts normal. Also had heart palpilations before this phase (mostly gone now). No skip beat kinda stuff, just palpilations, more aware/stronger palpilations as if my body wants to signal me to pay attention and take measures/Chill.

8. Anhedonia, complete boredom. Porno does not even arouse me anymore lolz.

Extra information: I have not managed to go past 35 days in all those years. Most streaks are 3 weeks, sometimes 4 weeks. 1 relapse, no binge. Porn/fantisizing doesn't seem to have any effect on me, I also dont feel addicted to it. Its really the masturbation that
sets me back into few awfull days of flatline/more tiredness. But this drawback seems also to fade away slowly, body can hande a relapse better.

No mediation session, no particular diet, no focus on a particular nutrient/mineral , no supplement (ashwaganda blabla), no amount of sports has ever gave me the impression to speed up my recovery. My recovery is truely the same speed throughout most of my recovery. I have the feeling it goes a little bit faster lately correlating with my eyebags getting to the point of not being super deep anymore and slowly fading away. Yes, this eyebag thing is real thing for me, the more these eye bags fade away over time, the more the PAWS symptoms get reduced and become less heavy, and because they are almost faded away (probably 6 months or longer still) my body is starting to produce melatonine which has improved my sleep lately and a bit faster facial heart growth and faster wound healing!? '!?' Because the difference is tiny so it makes me even doubt.

My own conclusion: I believe these tiny relapses between streaks really could fuck it all up and my body is in some kinda eternal cycle with very slow progression overtime. But I have to note: these 30 day streaks compared to 1 week streaks dont really speed up anything, therefore I doubt 2 month streaks will speed up my progress but I have never been there so I can't really tell or conclude.

My life passes by: I am in my thirties and I literally am not able to function and get out of this stupid room (Lolz). I wanna hit the GYM man!! Love that shit .
I wrote this all up because I am genuinly curious if people have experienced PAWS like this and also have very slow healing wounds and deep eyebags that slowly heal overtime (which correlates with PAWS reduction). Feel free to advice based on experience and research. Thanks in advance.

Extra extra note: It has almost been and is a surreal experience, the symptoms combined with the duration makes you feel this is some horror disease directly transfered from HELL. The fluctation and rollercoaster experience (amounts of ups and downs, symptom variety etc.) made me and other people (from what I have read) really doubt if the journey has been due to PAWS or something else, but after all these years and reading so much information and pages on this topic, I am 100% sure what I am experiencing is PAWS.

 

Hi LastStreak,

A lot of what you mention sounds like a typical unbalanced nervous system - the fatigue, the insomnia, the lack of libido. Slow healing wounds is also a sure sign that your nervous system is unbalanced and not performing at the level it should.

You are right about the monthly relapses, it likely isn't giving your nervous system much time to recover efficiently. However I would also say that if you have struggled to hold a streak past 4 weeks for years that there might be something else happening unconsciously.

Just my 2 cents based on what you have written - I hope recovery improves for you.

 

I have question. I want to know if this behaviour of mine is normal or not, also if not, how shall i change it.

So earlier when i used to walk on the street or go out, i used to always keep scanning for good-looking women. And whenever i saw one, I used to check them out, as in, in sexual way, look at their figure and what not. Basically i used to objectify women all the time, start picturing them in all sorts of scenarios.

But not that I've spent years into recovery, i think that side of my brain doesn't have a strong hold on me or that behaviour is not like it use to.

What happens now is whenever i look at a beautiful woman, i don't eye them down form top to bottom. Infact i only look at their faces and I sort of appreciate their beauty rather than objectify them. In way i get mesmerized by their beauty and it's not filled with lust at all. It's more pure. And i don't create any scenarios in my head related to them.

But i somewhere i feel like i still tend to always look out for women on the street even though not as intensely like i used to but still, it does happen. But I don't look at them with lust.

Is always looking out for women not normal? Should i be conscious and train my brain to not do it? Is it bad for recovery?

 

My rule of thumb is that it's always better to not look than to look. Looking at beautiful women only makes me want to look more. I used to be the guy who would not miss a single woman walking by. I would stare at girls compulsively. I would look inside of cars while driving. Today, I try to avert my eyes as much as I can or at least rely on the "3 second rule".

 

hi guys ,3 years in paws , i really need your help , it been a while since i came here because i was doing so much better after hitting the 2 years mark of paws ,i was not 100% but my focus and drive started to comeback and many other symptoms started fading but still the old hobbies were still kinda boring ....
so i started using social media again , playing video games , which i believe led to me chasing instant gratification and consuming softporn which led to relapses
my problem : i have had a lot of PMO relapses especially in the past 4 months ,my biggest fear is that i did edge to porn quite a lot ( like 6 or 7 times ) which i believe is worse than just MO, and i did have a lot of fantasizing too
now i'm back on track , it been 2 weeks since the last relapse , it's not that bad, my mood is ok , i'm not that sad or depressed or anxious , its not like i'm facing withdrawals like the first months of paws where i had constant panic attacks, couldnot even get out of home, suicidal thoughts ....
also i just had a wet dream which i think is a sign of healing ( this is the first time in a very long time like 6 months )
but the problem now is i'm facing other type of withdrawals like no energy , inabillty to focus , headaches, brain fog ,very bad memory , and the biggest problem is the exams are coming and i really have to perform , i don't wanna fail another year
my question are : 1 - im'i back to square one ? did i just ruin more than 2 years of progress ?
2 - if not how long it would take to recover from those relapses ?
3 - is there anything i could do to help me focus ?

 

It took me 6 months of continuous abstinence from PMO to start seeing recovery from the PAWS. I am not 100% out of PAWS but definitely see progress.

 

Hey euphoria,

Unfortunately it is hard for someone outside of you to measure your overall progress. Do I feel as bad as I did when I first began recovery? That is the question I would be asking myself after a binge. It is a question that only you can answer really.

Edging really is no different to continuously revving the engine of your car. It’s like burning excess fuel and power for the vehicle not to go anywhere.

If the urge gets REALLY bad, and you are struggling, aim for a single MO and then start a fresh. The damage gap between edging and 1 MO is huge. Both will not help, but you will do much less damage with a brief single session. Again - worst case scenario.

Again there isn’t really any way of knowing how long a person’s reboot is gong to take. There are a lot of factors to consider; the length of addiction, genetics, lifestyle, sleep, diet etc. I agree with what @Be Inspired mentioned about general recovery length. I think most people who first abstain with no serious relapses or slips, recover at around 6 months. Even me with a 20 year addiction, after 6 months I had a short moment where everything came back online. I think the only thing you did not mention is how long you have been addicted for? I think there will always been a difference between recovering from 5 years and 25 years of PMO.

In your situation I would make an attempt to understand what is bringing you back to PMO so heavily. It is an unpopular opinion, but nobody gets addicted to PMO for absolutely no reason, there is usually a deep rooted reason that only some rebooters make attempts to understand.

If you are worried about exams and need slightly more brain power, try taking 250mg of Uridine Monophosphate on days of study. It increases the production of key neurochemicals in the brain including dopamine. It basically improves brain health and integrity by providing nutrients to the brain.

Best of luck.

 

Guys what do you think about MO. Does it have a flatline like P? Is it super stimulus? Okay to do in PAWS? Avoid? For me I've found it to be draining and really bad. The only reason my streak is low for this long while is because of my mental health. As soon as I get my health situation sorted by a psychiatrist, I'm sure to be on line with the rest of you.

My advice would be to stay away from M strictly, don't do the every week or occasionally or just to feel sole release. It WON'T be worth it. As someone who has been relapsing constantly to MO for over a year, its been one of my biggest mistakes.

Thanks!

 

Heya Mentor,

My weak(er) nervous system is slowly recovering overtime at the same speed, maybe a little bit faster as I mentioned in my post because it got to the point that it allows me to sleep better but nothing too crazy yet. Maybe it recovers at the same speed because I believe:

- (Your body does not want to do crazy hormonal adjustments in a single day as it may be riskier for the body itself to cope with this adjustment. This is why in the beginning of heavy masturbation I did not feel weird and fatigued because the hormonal changes will be added layer by layer over time slowly because its less risky for the body to adjust like that. So by heavy masturbating we have added these incremental hormonal adjustments overtime and now in the recovery we are at the same speed peeling these layers off. This is my explanation for this phenomenon currently.) - AND this phenomenon also explains why people have such a hard time finding the cause for their fatigue and other endless list of symptoms mentioned by pmo addicts.

Anyway,

I have 1 single relapse a month and get back on track immedeaitly after. The reason I binge around the 30 days I feel like my body has memorized that it will get that dopamine shot around that time and the urges + boredom get too strong. You might think it will get easier when you healed significantly compared to months/years ago but also time starts to go slower, you are more aware of the seconds in a day, I believe this is due to hormones/ brain chemistry getting more in balance while you still have Anhedonia, which causes this boredom to be magnified. You basically go from some kinda blurry, numbed state into a more clear state overtime, but your Anhedonia has not lifted yet which causes the boredom to magnify overtime and therefore you still have a hard time surpassing previous streaks despite the nervous system has significantly recovered overtime and you start to feel 'better'.


I am not addicted to porn or anything closely related. It's the relapse that makes me feel awful for a few days/week, but even in those days I feel like my nervous system is slowly regenerating. I am making progress at the same speed no matter the 1 or 2 MO relapses a month, nervous system keeps recovering at the same pace.

So I am curious if there is anyone that went through the same process, but broke out the 30-day or shortterm streaks and felt that the pace of nervous system regeneration went faster than before. Also I feel like having a recovery buddy would massively help to push through the cycle and break free, think about a telegram group dedicated for this purpose in which you assign recovery buddies that daily motivate eachother through text messages and really keep the hopes up throughout the day. You can buy a new phonenumber and create a fairly anon telegram profile this way.

Also we as humans are competitive people, we do not want to fall back relative to others progress so buddies can this way create even more force to push through together . I don't know if online solutions like this are already out there, but this would still help me out and I believe alot of other people going through this cruel addiction.

 

FRIGHTENED - FLATLINE CYCLE - PAWS?

Flatline Cycle

I will try to keep this short. Back at the end of 2019 I went to have sex with a girl and had literally no feeling. We all know the story..

Wasn’t long before I did some research and discovered why. I immediately stopped watching P. Throughout the next few years, I had my streaks. I regained my sexual function.. at least enough to get the job done. Then I would PMO and to be honest, it was because I knew my bounce back time was pretty fast 7-10 days. All my sexual encounters were with random one night stands.

Fast forward to mid 2023 and I started dating a beautiful girl. At this point I was on a very long streak and had pretty much put P behind me. Our relationship blossomed and we had decent sex. I can’t say I lasted very long at first but as the weeks went on I got better and better. I would say we had sex 1-2 times a week.

Fast forward again to early 2024 and for whatever stupid reason, I watched P multiple nights in a row. I never PMO’d but I watched and edged. Very bad I know.

We’ll around 2/10/24, I went soft during sex and I knew in my heart it was because of watching P.
I gave her the regular “oh I just got distracted”

A few days later, even though I took a hims, I still went soft. The next night I was able to get hard and cum when she gave me a HJ. I really think this was because I associated the experience with P. The next day in the shower, we were being intimate and instead of having sex, I MO’ed. I believe this was really bad for me.

Later that night, I couldn’t get hard. I asked her for a few nights off and she obliged. I told her I USED to have an issue with this because of P and that I’m just in my head. I didn’t admit that I watched P.

Well, 2 weeks later I felt good enough to go. Although I did take a hims to be safe. We had sex and it lasted pretty fast but I finished.

The next day and week was terrible. I felt the same flatline I felt back in 2019 when I first quit PMO. It was really bad. Anxiety, depression, brain fog.

After about 3 weeks (she was sick the next week so I didn’t see her. Then she was on her period) I started to feel better again. We went away one night and when we woke up, we had another quick session. I took a hims the night before and think it still helped me on the morning.

Well, since then, my flatline feels worse than ever. Really really bad. I came clean and told her everything. This made me feel a lot better but she was very upset. I am hoping she will be patient because I can’t lose her.

I have asked her to allow me some time to reboot. I still have to educate her a little
More about this stuff and hope that she will understand and be patient.

It has now been 33 days since I last O’ed during sex and my flatline is persisting. Especially the anxiety and depression.

Although for 2 weeks, from 4/16 to 5/2, I felt great. Even felt some libido.

I am worried that I have gotten too far in my head and amplified the flatline. Could I have made it worse than ever before by relapsing and then having those p related sexual experiences. Can I expect a quick rebound? It seems like every time I orgasm I go back into a worse and more lengthy flatline. Have I doomed the relationship?

When I am with her, kissing and cuddling, I have life in my penis at times, but I don’t think enough to have sex. I think this is a good sign?

Plus I have a deep fear of flatlining again. Any suggestions?

My flatline this time has come with severe anxiety and brain fog. I never experienced major PAWS symptoms in the past, even after going on streaks and relapsing.

Is it possible to develop them now? Should I see how I feel in a month before I jump to conclusions? Am I just doing too much reading about PAWS?

 

I should add, the last time I watched P was 2/10. Edged but never O’ed. That was about 8-10 days in a row.

I was sexually active in my 20s but also watched a lot of P.

 

Just to address several of the posts above: edging is about the worst thing you can do.

Part of what makes it so bad is that it seems relatively harmless compared to say a full-on PMO binge, but IMHO (and in my experience) it is probably just as damaging. I say the same thing about just looking / peeking at stuff - it's all arousing, and it's all about the brain.

The only foolproof approach is hardmode - go cold turkey for as long as it takes. But of course, this is insanely difficult. So if you have to do anything, I would say sex with another person if it's an option (but carefully in terms of duration / frequency / intensity), or a very quick MO, to relieve the pressure.

And just remember, it is so easy to bullshit yourself - I've done it hundreds of times.

 

Where is experiment1996? Never cured ?

 

He's currently at Month 53. He has reported on Reddit he has got 2 reductions in the last 2 months.

52 months - the flatline will end soon

 

I stay away from MO. MO is my primary issue. I don't have the P without the MO. And I don't have the MO without the P. Never could, never have.

I had a year and a half of occasional MO but could not heal. MO is poison for me. It's addictive and caused me major grief (chronic prostate issues, frequent urination, ED). I believe there are plenty of people who try to stay away from P but hang on to MO that are fooling themselves.

I am sure there are people who have strictly P as their problem and they can get away with occasional or regular MO without the P. I say more power to them. But that's not me. I have to steer clear from MO one day at a time.

(Before Mentorr tells me that I said something wrong, this is just my opinion. I could be wrong)

 

Thanks for answer. 52 months and not cured? Its really really sad.. I am 26 months hardmode and not cured.. this shit is PERMANENT, no question about that..

 

What are your symptoms?

 

1.Irritated , mood swings.
2.Tired
3.24/7 penis tip discomfort, frequent urinating.
4.No libido
5.constipation/ ibs symptoms.
6.No signs at all of healing.
And many many other symptoms. Number 3 is the worst, its driving me crazy.

 

Not a single relapse?