Something our society is very good at is taking love and accusing it of being hatred, and taking exploitation and dressing it up as love. Example of the former: someone espousing the family values we're praising here is accused of being a 'hateful bigot.' Example of latter: co dependent alcoholics encouraging eachother to drink poison while they tell eachother how much they love eachother. keep fighting
Yes, wearing gimp masks will certainly stop censorship. Facepalm! I'm not sure that 'putting the genie back in the bottle' is a loosing battle. I have heard many people say this, but have never heard a compelling reason why this is the case. Yes I completely agree that we need to get the traditional Christian values back. The thing is that I find belief systems that try to do this like humanism or atheism plus for example to be completely uncompelling and not really succeeding at either. I'm just not sure that it is possible to divide Christianity and traditional Christian values from each other, they come from Christianity after all. No, just learned about it now. I don't mind Varg, but I don't really pay attention to him.
The evidence that Christianity is based on beliefs with zero rational or factual basis is overwhelming at this point. It would be like trying to get adults to start believing in Santa Claus again.
That's true. For your first example, that is almost always pure projection of their own hateful bigotry. I am repeatedly amazed how much people who accuse others of hatred, bigotry, fear/phobias are just projecting their own inadequacies. About your second example, its better to have drinking buddies than to stew in your own misery. To victory, to glory!
Perhaps it is irrational, but I would not go so far as to say that there is no factual basis for it. What is more important is that it works to build a society on Christianity, while atheist/agnostic societies don't. That is good enough for me. I think it is more important to be pragmatic and do what is good in the long run than being totally logical and fact based. We are humans after all, not Spock from Star Trek. Regarding Santa Claus, adult people believe all kinds of weird stuff from communism to astrology to feminism. I'm pretty sure me and you could succeed at starting the cult of Santa Claus at this point.
I've been around a lot of political extremists. The ones who winge loudest about capitalism often tend to be some of the most calculating and mercentile people. The ones who talk about anarchy are often bullies, or wannabe bullies. The ones who chant 'ACAB' are the first to tell everyone what to do and think- they don't hate cops, they are just bitter that they ain't the cops. Often these types cause problems in daily life because, hyper aware (although perhaps only on a subconscious level) of their feeling of inadequacy, they throw unnecessary tantrums in a (disgusting and cringe-worthy to watch) attempt to assert themselves- in situations where it's completely unnecessary, and in fact counter productive to the team, for them to assert themselves. Yes, and to dying face forward, having given our all.
It is indeed absurd to expect people to be super rational. Dostoevsky realised this soon after his involvement with utopian revolutionaries, and indeed his Christian faith seems to have largely been a response to this. Two questions, then, if you don't mind: How would you avoid the horrors participated in the name of Christianity? Wholesale slaughter in wars over minor points of religious dogma. Torture. Excuses for massive class oppression. And we know now about the trafficking of sex offenders by, most notably the Catholics...just imagine how much sinister stuff went on when things were much more in the dark. How would you sell it? How would you push back against the clear arguments against Christianity which are now widely known and understood? How would you convince everyone to just forget about that?
I don't think that there have been much 'wholesale slaughter' in Christian vs Christian wars, I would like to see some examples of that if you have any. Sure there have been wars between armies, but the death tolls are very small compared to the non-religious wars of the 20th century and abuse of the population by secular governments. Christians are not perfect and will also do evil or sin if you will. Therefore I don't think we can ever eliminate Christians committing torture and other acts, but Christianity gives a moral framework to the populous. The Catholics definitely needs to allow their priests to marry women, and go a little medieval on the ones that abuse children. If being broken on the wheel has a place then this is it. Just what is these clear arguments against Christianity? I would make a moral and practical case pointing out obvious evil in society, in other religions and the contradictions of atheism. Sorry if this is a bit short, I have to get to work, but I will get back to you tomorrow.
Unfortunately this where I will have to respectfully disagree and bow out, since I don't have the time / willingness to put into going into the details on some of these questions. I believe that they've been adequatly debated elsewhere though, so people can look into these things for themselves if they want to. I hope you will forgive me for leaving you hanging my friend. Only thing I would like to observe real quick- I don't think the marrying women thing has much to do with child abuse. The last I heard, rates of paedophilia (eg the number of people who turn out to be paedophiles) are no higher in the Catholic church than in wider society- the difference being that in most organisations, one who is caught will be handed over for prosecution, whilst the Catholic church has a history of shielding them from prosecuting, and shipping them to new parts of the world where they continue to offend. Anyway, stay with your challenge and get those 90 days in bro. keep fighting
That's completely fine, no forgiveness required. Honestly I was not really looking forward to spending hours and hours of writing a three thousand word essay about how I to restore Christianity, because that was where this discussion was heading. On the Catholic pedophilia point: I have read that several places too, I have actually read that there is more pedophilia among american public school teachers than Catholic priests. The thing is that we expect a different level of morality from a priest than a school teacher. As you point out the biggest problem is that the church is covering it up. If they aggressively prosecuted the pedophile priests instead of sheltering them, then the public perception of the Catholic church would be way different in my opinion. The problem with not allowing priests to marry is that now you have made priesthood less attractive for heterosexuals and more attractive for homosexuals. From what I know about homosexual sexuality young men and teen boys are highly sought after. Therefore when you have a celibate homosexual priest the road to man/boy pedophilia is shorter when they fail at celibacy than if it were a heterosexual priest. Thanks man, I'm going strong so far. Good luck to you to man
