Discipline and virtue for your success

The reason is quite simple: I find that, in addition to only controlling acting out, reducing the thoughts and arousal make my life way more pleasant, beautiful and effective even further in magnitude. It is the memories of previous experiences of that life that call me back to it.
The level of how far I go with this is limited by security: I do not want to go to a monastery or any other institution - where I could hide from the world and be protected from lust while still avoiding loneliness - because I am non-religious and do not trust the power-structures there to have my best interests in mind. I think I would not be happy in those environments, and so I choose to live in the world like a normal person (albeit not so normal in my private and inner life I guess) and have to deal with some minor sexual reactions (and their subtle or not so subtle consequences) once in a while. Also there is a point where too much controlling of the self becomes a burdensome stressor, and also starts to limit my social life (which from experience, I believe is a fundamental human need). Another issue of security is the further I go in my bliss (achieved by degrees of abstinence), the more delusions I have to handle, which could lead others to abuse me or me making bad choices.

 

@Pangolyn, at this point I would like to thank you for asking these questions. This has been very pleasant for me so far and has been a good exercise in discipline and contemplation for me.

 

@PeaceOfMindPlz your welcome. It has been pleasant for me, too, and much more it was helpful and brought me much further in my considerations. Thank you very much for letting me understand your point of view.

 

To be extremely honest with you, I've made a conscious choice to heavily reduce my engagement on this forum for the reason you just provided, preferring instead to speak to a small selection of people through the private messages. However, having used forums for a long time, I've come to accept this as the natural course of things: over time, the intellectual and/or more meaningful conversation gives way to sound bites, and then from there rather pointless discussion, repetition, and low-effort posting. There might be some interesting things said here and there, but it often gets lost in the ether over time, or receives rather minimal feedback altogether. Over at Rewire Companion, the engagement is even worse, largely due to the much smaller amount of users.

It is refreshing to see that people are addressing the problem, but in a way, I sometimes welcome this inevitability. It's a reminder to me not to live on this forum, and to spend my time engaged in far more productive activities (I just finished a book about one of my favourite historic figures, which was a long time coming)! This website, meanwhile, should serve as a convenient place for help and support, as opposed to a social media-esque hub for denizens to congregate. In fact, I've come to understand this time around that reduced screen time altogether (which implies less time on the internet) is necessary to hasten recovery time, since most porn addictions are subsidiary to internet addiction as well.

I've pondered this concept myself, even though I never read the book you mentioned (I'll certainly add it to my reading list). After an orgasm has been achieved, the brain feels less and less sexual attraction to the subject of that arousal (at least in my case during PMO), forcing the addict to find more novel forms of sexual gratification. I think this helps to explain the aforementioned novelty factor among the sex addicts of the world, including people with multiple partners.

This particular paragraph was relatable. After certain orgasms, I myself would encounter something I now identify as an orgasm hangover. When in this state, I would experience the following symptoms:

1. Pounding headache
2. Aching sides (near the kidneys)
3. Pain passing urine
4. Grogginess
5. Feel dizzy and fatigued
6. Mood swings

I suspect this was due to the intensity of the MO, or perhaps the frequency, but this feeling was quite pervasive and largely unpleasant to experience. A feeling of insatiability also followed, and on rarer occasions I would even get painful friction burns, which could take two to three weeks to recover. Suffice to say, it's almost ironic that humans "have sex" because it feels good, when chronic masturbation led to these dreadful hangovers. Even worse yet, to add to your own experiences, many so-called "experts" swear that masturbation is completely normal, thus reinforcing my distrust of the scientific elite nowadays.

Do you mind explaining what you mean by grandeur and paranoia? I'm sorry you experienced these symptoms, by the way. I do understand from my own experiences that being alone or lonely can be a significant trigger for a recovering addict; the lack of accountability can be a temptation in and of itself. I've found that one solution is to always have other people present, and make sure that I'm always in view. For example, in a place with surveillance, I always sit under the camera, so that people can see what I'm doing, and it's harder to hide things. Ironic, considering that I actually hate being filmed, though I accept it as the way of the world.

To be honest, I've seen some people post about the importance of willpower, and I just roll my eyes. We are all addicts: our brain is a state of hypofrontality, which actually impedes our capacity for willpower. This is why I'm a huge advocate of porn blockers for those new to recovery, at least until we develop that sense of discipline on our own.

Recently, I've decided to spend more time contemplating my character, something that I've allowed to atrophy after years of neglect. In the black pill circles that I used to be part of before finding my way here, the attitude of most forum users stressed the importance of improving one's physical attractiveness and elevating status; character and virtue were seen as ineffective overcompansations. However, I've since come to reject that view, since I've come to realize how important character is in the long term. Besides, attraction is overrated and hyper-inflated in our modern world, and those who chase beauty are literally some of the ugliest people I've ever met (plastic surgery, anyone?)

I donate to a hospital near the capital where I live; I've done so on and off again since 2016. It isn't much, but for now it's all I can afford to do. Meanwhile, I am interested in volunteer and outright activities; my parents used to participate in food drives, so I'll try to look around for more opportunities in my area. Makes me regret not accepting a Red Cross volunteer position that was offered to me two years ago, which would have helped flood victims.

Luckily, I've always had a low opinion of myself. However, an inferiority complex is a trap in and of itself, prompting inactive, procrastination and eventually relapse. I think everyone needs to find that happy balance, but all too often in our current world, we place so much of a premium on "self-image," to the point where it crosses the blurred line into straight up narcissism.

You know, when I was a boy (around eight years old), I imagined myself becoming a monk, disavowing the world and pursuing a solitary life. Too bad I discovered porn two years later, and then hit puberty a year or two after that. So much for that dream.

Anyways, there was a time when I thought that living the way you just described would be impossible. However, I sometimes imagine to myself that the trade off of a completely conquered sex drive would be freedom. With such freedom, I could pursue other goals, hopes and aspirations that my addiction prevented me from pursuing.

I too have mostly female friends, but they are all older than me and very conservative in their thinking. That said, I am in college, so you can imagine how women this time of year will be dressed. Oh well, I just have to learn to live with it, while pursuing this austere path (or something similar) you've set up for yourself. I'd love to see how it impacts my life.

Do you mind going into detail about this process. I've never actually had an emission in my life, but it would serve as a great pre-emptive. Also, would you happen to know any erection suppression techniques? Sudden and persistent urges - especially under stress - can be a real issue for me before bed.

That's going to be a challenge for me; it might be a while before I get to that point. For now, I know that I'm going to have to work my way up to that point. One technique is to ruin my own leering by reminding myself that I have no chance with these women. What's the point in admiring something that you can never indulge in? That's a waste of time for me, personally.

I've deleted all of my video games, and I try my best to avoid "junk food." Being lactose intolerant, that's pretty easy (as most Western food contains dairy), but I also aim to avoid sugar, sodium, gluten, etc. My food is consequently bland, but I plan to take up intermittent fasting throughout the week.

As for virtue, my goal is to learn to be a better judge of character, while simultaneously developing my own.

Good attitude to have. I've never been in a committed relationship, and recently decided to supress my sex drive as much as possible. In fact, I heard of a gentleman who had his prostate removed due to it becoming cancerous, and he lost his sex drive completely. In a world where sex change operations are readily accessible, not to mention assisted suicide, perhaps I might be able to have my own prostate removed for similar effects. Naturally, I'll have to do extensive research, and only treat this as a last resort.

This is ultimately my goal. I personally abhor religion, but I would love to enjoy freedom from addiction more than anything. When I'm on my death bed, I want to die knowing that I was addiction free in my final years, free to enjoy life without being a slave to annoying urges.

I truly appreciate the fact that you wrote this. It's so rare to stumble across such well-thought out material on this forum it seems.

 

I read your post very carefully as I'm strongly interested in how others think about this subject, how this fits together for them. Thank you for your detailed post.
At some points I agree, at some I disagree. At two points I felt the obligation to answer:

I don't think that's what humility really means. A low self-esteem is rather counterproductive for reaching any goal. Humility in the sense I understand it is not being superstitious, not being too much convinced about deceptive "knowledge", not to make others small in order to feel great.
Please do not make yourself small. You are not small.

I don't think that supressing your sex drive is a way to success. Always if you supress something it pops up on other and mostly unwanted places. Suppression doesn't remove it. I found it much more viable and helpful to find a way to come to terms with it and learn how the keep control over what you cannot remove.

 

Hi @rheinpfalz and thank you for your message!

I actually wrote the posts in this thread in the context of life after rebooting from PMO addiction. Nothing I say in the original post in this thread has to do with porn addiction and the other posts in this thread barely mention them. It is totally okay that you share your view from the context of the addiction but I thought I'd make sure that you understand the proper context of what I have said in this post.

I'm all for reducing screen time and time on the internet regarding recovery and life beyond recovery. However, there may be situations where frequent activity on NoFap forums are a good distraction from porn and keep one mindful until a good enough streak can be achieved. This is the first internet forum I've posted on (I think) and can see the drawbacks of using it but so far the support I have gained from using this site has been what I have needed since I got stuck in my most recent moderate PMO loop after recovery. So yes, I agree that it is better to use this forum as a place for help and support.

I highly recommend reading it. Gary Wilson (Founder of YourBrainOnPorn and the late husband of Marnia), had a big contribution to this book and takes into account the Coolidge effect (novelty) also. Definitely experienced it myself also.

Yep, can relate to the grogginess, fatigue, and mood swings as a pervasive symptom in myself. The other symptoms you listed remind me of times when I would have DE and had to furiously M to reach O. I personally did get headaches due to being in such a bad posture during M for long time in addition to a lot of sitting on the computer without applying corrective measures to the posture, and from tight muscles around the spine and particularly behind the neck. Learning awareness of tight muscles and fixing them via self-massage has helped tremendously in general and could be useful to you as a student who has to spend significant time on the computer.

Personally, I think the scientific consensus on frequent masturbation being healthy and normal is a bit short-sighted. It just is so that not too many studies take into account months of abstinence so scientist have to go with what info they have to reach a consensus (otherwise it wouldn't be very scientific). I'd agree that a life of medium-term abstinence (once every 2-3 weeks) from O can be less healthy than doing it e.g. once per week because that 2-3 weeks is more difficult to manage due to losing the stress-reducing and pain-killing effects form O (and more). Maybe a sweet spot in my case could have been like once every 2 months when I wasn't committed to total abstinence. But I am probably just projecting my own experience here - moving on!

Of course! In my case the grandiose delusions came in stressed manic states as transient thoughts and beliefs such as "I am a million times better than everyone else. I am basically a god among men and nobody is deserving of my retention secrets" & "I have the ultimate power to do anything I want and don't need anyone else in my life at all, and everyone else is just pathetic and barely getting by looking for scraps in life and would just get in my way". That's about as narcissistic as I could get and it was killing me on the inside in addition to the paranoid delusions I also had. The paranoid delusions were like "I cannot put a single bit of information of my retention secrets on any public medium or tell anyone I know in real life because it will lead to the elite to finding out and wanting to silence me, ruin my life, and take away my amazing retention benefits" & "can't trust anyone with anything". When I am safe and secure and in a high state, I think nothing like this though I do value myself highly (I'll return to this later in this message).

I do agree what you said about loneliness and accountability for PMO recovery, but this was not what I was talking about in this thread. I wouldn't want to go too much off topic. Glad you found a control method that works for you though!

Yes, I agree that it is essential to have some level of controlling the environment one is in (especially initially) when rebooting but when the hypofrontality reduces (this does not really happen by itself, it requires active learning of discipline, learning to be comfortable being uncomfortable, exercise, meditation, making other choices that require resisting impulses etc.) these external environmental/sensory control methods are not needed to such an extreme measure, allowing one to live life with less restrictions. If one does nothing to exercise the frontal lobes, the addict eventually ends up as just running away from the urges and the brain finding a way to use anyways. But yeah, willpower alone does not work in most cases and certainly not in the long run.

Awesome! I'm really happy for you for realizing this!

In my post, I actually meant smaller things like offering to help out a friend or colleague, or giving a tip to the hairdresser. Good to hear you do literal charity work. Remember not to exhaust yourself though!

I don't think it is good to have a low opinion of oneself. In fact, I think it is good and healthy to believe that one is excellent and of high value (perhaps I am a narcissist). The issue in my opinion comes with comparing that to others. From experience, I am much better off believing that I am of high value and have excellent qualities BUT refusing to engage in entertaining comparison of myself to others in my thoughts and in my speech.

This was very relatable for me. Thanks for sharing! : )

Sure! I'll send you a private message for the details as I don't want to post any graphic details here to be decent. As for erection suppression, I don't prevent morning wood but if sometimes if an erection would occur any other time due to being aroused by something, I would basically relax my pelvic fool (like doing a very light reverse-kegel), relax my body, freeze into a focused meditative state, "stare and slowly fall into the void" in a trance-like state and e.g. take my awareness to the physical perceived feeling of having my brain in my skull. This is a skill I have figured out for myself through creative meditation practices and it sort of just happens by itself. I don't know of any other techniques as erections are not really a problem for me, just the thoughts may be.

I think it might be a healthier attitude to in the moment think of it as an exercise in building discipline and avoiding frustration due to biological processes to avoid needless suffering from negative thinking. At least your self-reminders sound negative to me. If they are not from your point of view, then that's good!

Awesome! I also quit playing video games and avoid junk food. However, eventually when abstaining from these long enough, they just become automatic though and I wouldn't call them disciplines at that point anymore since there is not much effort put into maintaining them. As long as there is anything actively engaging the frontal lobes and fighting impulses frequently enough, that builds discipline.

Thank you! Suppressing the sex drive is definitely a strategy. This reminds me, I actually unintentionally experienced this strategy when I did the most extreme of my ascetic practices. Basically I at one time (many months) I would deny myself pleasure in the most basic of needs also, eating bland food, over-exercising and being on a caloric deficit. My sex drive was lower and it was in that sense easier to abstain but doing this wasn't sustainable and I ended completely stressed, miserable, and skeleton-looking man in the end (though I got to experience some pretty good hunger highs during it). And this was even in a secure environment! Would not recommend doing what I did. Basically my body went into anorexia (the symptom, not anorexia nervosa) and it took me a long time for my body to start absorbing food again (a milder degree of refeeding syndrome).

I do not think removing libido is a good idea as I believe that libido has subtle positive effects on our non-sexual social exchanges with others. What I'm saying is, you may affect your other social drives negatively also on a biological level. But I don't really have anything to back it up so take it with a grain of salt.

Happy to hear you are determined in your goal!

Thank you very much for the kind words and thank you for sharing your own thoughts as well. I exhausted myself a little but I had a good time writing this (though less so for the dark parts) and it was good for discipline and contemplation.