I appreciate your response, although we see the world differently. I see the world as a world that was once perfect. A perfect world created by God with Adam and Eve as the first humans - without fault. However, I believe the world has become corrupted and fallen. The humans and the animals and the ground and the air and the water - all of it has become in a way rotted from the inside. This is how I view the world. And we humans are doing many things to try and get back to that heightened worldly state. Humans have come up with many great inventions, yes I believe that fully. And yea, I see some value in cosmetics and things like this, and I see the reason behind it. But I just argue against the mass commercialization of cosmetics. It is insane to me. Women must be in a constant state of panic about their appearance. I don't think that is a good way to live! And regarding sports, yes I can see the social aspect of it and how it brings people together, things like that. But is that really the state of the human you think is at its greatest? If your argument is that sports is a good thing because it distracts all the idiots in the world from fighting and killing each other, then yes, I'd have to agree that sports is a good thing. In fact, maybe sports, porn, Hollywood, and all these other commercialized distractions are good things. If people didn't have all these things to numb their consciousness, then I suppose they would tear the world apart within a week!
I read this whole thing. Makeup and cosmetics are not a sign of female oppression. "Oppression" is a heavy word, it means "unjust control." "Unjust" means a contradiction in moral values, and I don't think makeup is generally a moral choice. When I hear women complaining about makeup, it's about "society's" expectation for them to wear it. They don't like the way people look at them or the comments people make about them when they don't wear it, but nobody is telling them "wear this makeup or you're fired," or some equivalent. Cultural expectations are different depending on where you're at. I live in middle America, honestly I see a lot of women in minimal to no makeup. I hear in the South, women are/were expected to put on a full face just for a trip to the mailbox. Some say it's about respect for other people, I've heard it called "war paint," and like Steps, I've seen some women genuinely enjoy it. As for why and what it does, it depends on what piece. Foundation evens out complexion, hides freckles, scars, and other "blemishes." Mascara and eye liner brings attention to the eyes, which are indicators for health and also useful for communication. Blush or rouge... some say it mimics a sexual flush, others say it just makes a woman look young and healthy. I don't know. Long eyelashes are just attractive, it means better protection for the eyeballs, and I've heard loud and frequent lamentations from sisters and my wife that men have longer eyelashes. It's because we used to work outside. Sorry. Women put on fake lashes because it looks good. Then there's trends that are just an aesthetic choice. In the 80's it was popular to use copious amounts of blue eye shadow. Mom called them "racoon eyes." For a while it was all the rage to draw these quasi-Egyptian "wings" at the corners of the eyes with liner. I don't think there's any deep evolutionary answer for some of it. I theorize it sometimes just represents grooming, self care. It says, "I find myself valuable, I spend time and money on myself," and that's more attractive than a person who doesn't value themselves. After all, if you don't think you're worth spending time on, why should I? The thing about makeup, though, is it blocks pores and is unhealthy for skin. So, a woman wearing makeup appears healthy for the moment, and will be more unhealthy later. If she consistently doesn't wear makeup, she generally looks okay.
People are allowed to be frustrated with society expectations even if they don't include some kind of threat of losing their jobs or something equivalent. I don't think people are acting like it's life and death. It's just annoying and feels a bit unfair, especially when men aren't expected to wear makeup. I know men have other expectations put on them, though, and they are also allowed to be frustrated by those, if they are unfair. Eyeliner, not mascara. But the rest is accurate. Lol
Umm... maybe make up is just fun? And totally for guys too. And nonbinary folk. It just makes people look better. That's why people like it.
The industry is in it to control and make money. Women see cosmetics as a few different things. 1. It enhances their looks to become more attractive. Women are sexual too, they want to allure in a man using their looks. Women do not initiate contact first, the man does and whoever looks the prettiest will have the male approach her. 2. It enhances their looks to compete with the other females, women are very competitive with one another and most of the time put on makeup to impress other women. When my ex put on make-up, it wasn't to impress me because she already had me, it was because she was planning to take pictures and show it off via social media or whatever......to other women. It's like their form of competition. "Look at this new makeup I got, I look good, I took a good photo, I'm living my best life" Thanks for coming to my ted talk lol
Omfg dude you're TOO woke hahaha. If you're not trolling and actually believe this, you'd make an excellent male feminist and should consider joining the movement if you haven't already. Nobody is pushing women to wear makeup- except for other girls and women! Everybody wants something to make themselves feel better and sometimes a little bit of makeup looks great.
Im just analyzing the power structure is the cosmetic industry I guess women don’t care if a company profits off of them. Me personally, I don’t like people to profit off me
Geeze, yea I guess women just see the world from a different angle. I guess there is no stopping the onslaught of women buying cosmetics
Yea idk haha I just think it'd be really cool to see a massive movement where women start boycotting cosmetics. I'd like to see the reaction to that happening. Unfortunately, probably will never happen though
And don't underestimate the power that make up injects into the porn industry. I wouldn't have become a lust addict if the world was without make up.
Yea I agree with this definitely... even girls in real life... there have been times when the way they wear their makeup has me thinking they are "impossible to resist"... its a strange thing
How do you live your life, then? Do you purchase clothes? People are profiting off of you. Do you buy food? People are profiting off of you. Do you live in a house where you either pay rent or pay a mortgage? People are profiting off of you. Do you have any hobbies at all, or things you enjoy in life? Do you refuse to do things that you would enjoy or that would make you happy, if it would mean someone else profits as well? If so, why? Why can't you both profit? I get it if you don't want someone to profit off of you for something you don't like or you find wrong, like makeup or watching sports. But what about things you do enjoy? Why can't you enjoy supporting someone else while they offer you a service you needed or desired? I read a lot, and most of the time I get books for free. But when I do pay for them, the author profits. And I'm glad about that. They deserve to profit. They created the thing that I am getting enjoyment from, so they deserve to be compensated for it. Heck, even the publisher deserves profit as well, because they are doing a lot of work to market the book, which supports the author, and they also contributed to the creation of the book in the form of editing, cover design, and physical production. So they deserve to profit for their work. It's not always a bad thing for people to profit from you. As long as you are both happy and enjoying the exchange you've made, what's wrong with that? If someone enjoys makeup, then no, they probably don't care that the company profits off of them. Why should they? The company made a product they like, and they are getting enjoyment from it. Now, when it comes to makeup specifically, I think there is certainly an arguement that could be made about manipulation and brainwashing and that the only reason people enjoy giving money to the company is because the company has manipulated them into thinking they enjoy makeup when many people really would be happier without it. But it seems like this mindset of yours goes beyond just makeup, so I'm not really talking about this specifically. I honestly think, between this and the thread about sports, something deep has been revealed here that you really need to examine and maybe discuss with a therapist. There's something more going on here. And I don't say that as an insult, but as a genuine statement that I think you would be much happier and more fulfilled in life if you got to the bottom of why you think this way and what has caused some of this bitterness and, in some cases it seems like, envy.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call BS on that. People have been full of lust and sexual sin since the beginning of time, long before makeup was invented. Women are r*ped all the time in countries where they are literally covered in burkas and men can only see their eyes. Makeup is not to blame for your issues with lust. The only one to blame for that is you and your own sinful desires. If makeup was never invented, then women without makeup would be the norm, and trust me, you would still find a way to lust after them. As would I. I'm not putting this in you as if it doesn't also apply to me. I'm just saying, unless you have some kind of makeup fetish and that is the ONLY thing you are sexually attracted to, is a woman's face with a lot of makeup on, that comment is not true. And I could say the same thing to @100 Days. Women are not to blame for you lusting after them, especially not because of how they wear their makeup. I'm sorry, but that's just a bit ridiculous.
Just my two cents. People wear it to look better to attract a mate, to reproduce. I mean, that's why were are all on nofap, we are caught up in a fantasy that controls our reproductive mind. It's different for rock stars, emperors, and actors because they have the three things a woman looks for; Status, Wealth, Power (Self made people). It's cool if Brad Pit for example wears a lite dressing of make up on set. It's also different if it's for fun and a dad is wearing makeup because his daughters find it amusing. Just like colors on female animals to attract mates, female humans wear it to attract mates and stand out from other females. It's an animal instinct. A man wearing make up is a complete turn off for women, let me explain. A woman who sees a man wearing feminine products is going to be automatically turned off (Unless he has status, wealth, and power then she is willing to accept it). A woman who cannot tell if your a man or woman will be turned off as well. As an organism, she should be able to directly tell who her mate is to carry on life of the species. She will use colors to attract, court, then reproduce. We still have the tribal brain (man strong defend, woman weak/nurture nest) so the male/female social dynamics we've built upon for thousands of years in our subconscious instincts cannot work properly. When a man is wearing makeup, which is associated with females, she subconsciously tells her caveman brain he is insubordinate to her. In a caveman situation, a man who is subordinate would let to certain doom. So...she is turned off and find you not a suitable organism to reproduce with. It ain't happening. This isn't about love is love, or how you "feel", it's about ultimate survival of an organism. You don't see a lioness on the savannah putting sticks on her neck like a mane because she "feels" like a lion or because it's fun. It would ruin her survival, other male lions would challenge her. Even the animals know this. The big question a woman asks herself is this; can I be fully 100% be confident in a man who is wearing neon makeup, complains, has piercing's, bowl cut, and a crop top on to defend me from a criminal threatening my very life? Would that feminine man be able to lay down his life for me, protect, and nurture my children? If he gets upset over the recent trends on tiktok and wears makeup because he wants to have "fun" then there is no way he will stop a group of 8 men from barging in and doing what they want with her and her offspring. So don't wear makeup (unless you have power)
And you are not the judge here. I'm indeed not the victim from the moment I became conscious about the cause effects in my own life. I claim the statement that I would not have become a lust addict if the world was without make up. Cause-effect is incredible important as a kid. Kids ARE victims to all kind of unrighteousness if they are not protected against the evil influences of this world. And yes when we grow older we need to undo ourselves from these victim roles and grow towards stable mature people, able to distinguish the good and evil in this world.
Calling it an oppression isn't the right word. To answer the question - it's to help woman either feel better about themselves, in a positive or negative way. It would be very interesting to imagine a world where make-up didn't exist, though.
Oh yeah, totally. I'm not saying women should shut their traps and get back in the kitchen where they belong. I'm saying specific words matter, and "oppression" is a bit much. Oppression is about morality and control, and I don't think there's a conspiracy to control women and turn them into playthings for men*, any more than traditional gender roles were a conspiracy to turn men into whipped wage earners. There's norms, and the norms usually exist for good, non-malicious reasons, but they can be taken to extremes, lose their usefulness, or simply not fit with an individual and then you get to make a choice. Ride with the current, even if you don't like it, or be counter-cultural. See, words matter. Mascara is the clumpy garbage that goes in the eyelashes, eyeliner's the one that lines the eyes. For some reason I was thinking they were synonymous, like blush & rouge. Mmmm, I think that depends on context. It's been kosher, even expected in some times and places, even in "Western" cultures, but here and now it's going to be read as feminine and counter-cultural. Some regard counter-cultural as good and it definitely can be, but men using makeup is definitely a defiance of norms. Maybe guys can get away with it in high population centers, but that's read as a critique on gender norms. They are intentionally presenting themselves as more feminine in order to devalue gender norms, not reinforcing masculinity. Then there's the Goth scene, and glam rockers have always gotten away with it, but that's because they are intentionally putting themselves out there as a freakshow. Absolutely. You can see the male version of this with bodybuilding. Where are guys posting their flex pics? In the same message boards where they're shouting "Deus Vult!" and "I say kinsman, dost thou hoist?" Are women browsing those forums? Assuredly not. Same as men not reading those gossip rags talking about who wore what. I stand by my statement, makeup isn't full-on oppression, but it's a cultural norm and it's led by females. But people profit from you all the time, and you profit from others. It's called a "marketplace." In any transaction there has to be a little profit, an exchange where both parties feel like they are benefiting. Otherwise unrest and resentment grows, and you end up with the French Revolution. People don't like to be exploited. That's the difference, and that's totally legit. I don't like to be exploited either, and does the cosmetics industry exploit women by propagating a toxic culture where use of their products is unofficially mandatory? That's a matter of opinion, but every company wants people to buy their product and will go to whatever measures they can to make that happen, and sometimes they undoubtedly cross a line. It's all about pushback, which is what this thread is doing. It's well possible the cosmetics industry crosses the line. Is it up to you, to us, to stop them? It sort of happens, but not on a massive scale. The feminists of the Sixties and Seventies, the "Second Wave," made a big deal about burning bras. They didn't actually do it often, it quickly became a symbolic phrase and undergarment arson would have been too literal, but it's too counter-cultural to catch on. Real change doesn't happen overnight. It takes one woman deciding to not conform, and otherwise be "normal." Then other people see her and think, "I guess it's not too extreme, I guess that's acceptable." More people do it, it becomes more familiar, and in a couple generations the norm shifts. Frankly, if everyone stopped buying cosmetics right now, that would be a significant disruption to the international economy. It's a multi-billion dollar (or euro, or yen) industry, you don't just slam the brakes on something like that without causing a pileup. Maybe you would, maybe you wouldn't. No way to know. Makeup, though, is just one signal we use to interpret as sexually available. Make no mistake, sin finds a way. If it didn't have that tool it'd use something else. *There are unquestionably men who consciously want to control women and make them their playthings, but their numbers and influence are grossly overestimated. At least, I think so.
I tried to link you a Congolese tribal women, but yeah, just type tribal woman in google. I'd like to see world with no perfume haha. Just go to any part of the world where there are tribes. They also aren't arguing about how makeup is oppressive or not in online forums. Instead they are trying to figure out how to get food, water, and who is next in line in their families. Just trying to get through the evening. As far as I am concerned this whole thread is a waste of time and energy, this whole argument is only a first world problem where there are no survival issues to tackle. We all have it made and have nothing else better to do.
The issues of the modern world xD. Is language oppression? Without it, we can't gather a following if we hold an opinion. Hitler wouldn't have been able to get his ideas across.
